Many people ask: how do you know when “gentle nutrition” is working for you without the scale?
If you too are healing your relationship with food and want to pursue health, then you’ll want to know about Intuitive Eating Principle 10: Honor Your Health with Gentle Nutrition.
Registered Dietitian Nutritionists Dalina Soto and Melissa Landry interview Rachael Hartley, RD – fellow Dietitian and author of the book Gentle Nutrition to discuss:What is Gentle Nutrition? How to measure your nutritional wellbeing without weighing yourself meal planning tips and “non-diety” ways to get back into the meal planning groove.
This episode ends our Intuitive Eating Series! Go back to hear previous principles, or request a free guide to put what you are learning into practice.
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Connect with Dalina on Instagram: @your.latina.nutritionist
This episode was sponsored by No More Guilt with Melissa Landry. Reminder that though we are dietitians, we’re not *YOUR* dietitian. Podcasts don’t constitute treatment. If you have concerns about your dieting behaviors, seek out guidance from a medical or mental health professional. And if you’re looking for the process, support, and focus you need to live life without food guilt apply for a coaching program from today’s sponsor. No More Guilt with Melissa Landry is currently enrolling clients into 1:1 programs, group programs, and, an online course: the Ex-Dieter’s Guide to No More Guilt.
[intuitive eating series] principle 10: honor your health with gentle nutrition with rachael hartley, rd transcript
Melissa Landry 0:04 Hi there, we are experts in intuitive eating for on again off again chronic dieters, and we are here to help you take the guilt and stress out of eating so you can become the first in your family to break the diet cycle, just like we are in our families. Dalina Soto 0:19 We want you to be who you are without food guilt. Melissa Landry 0:22 Be sure to follow us on Instagram. No more guilt for Melissa and your Latina nutritionist for delina Dalina Soto 0:29 Are you ready? Let's break the diet cycle. Melissa Landry 0:32 Hey, it's me Melissa. Before we start, I want to let you know that this episode is brought to you by no more guilt with Melissa Landry. What you're about to listen to is not a professional coaching or counseling session. Each episode is a one time conversation meant for educational purposes. Look, we're dieticians. But we're not your dietician. Remember that podcasts don't constitute treatment. If you have concerns about your dieting behaviors, seek out guidance from a medical or mental health professional. And if you're looking for the process, support and focus you need to live life without food guilt apply for a coaching program from today's sponsor, me. I'm currently enrolling clients into one to one programs, group programs and I recently added a do it yourself format the ex dieters guide to no more guilt apply for a program at Melissa Landry nutrition calm, I hope to meet you soon. We are set to talk about some nutrition is the how you say it in Spanish. Thank you do it better than expecting that you've caught me off guard. I'm trying you know i minor in Spanish and has since forgotten it. So I try. This is really exciting to talk about today, nutrition often gets lost in the shuffle in the anti diet movement, because we're trying to heal from all the messages that felt restrictive and depriving. And so today, we have Rachel Hartley, who is the author of gentle nutrition with us to talk through how to introduce nutrition with a little less guilt. Rachel, will you introduce yourself to our audience today? Rachael Hartley 2:01 Yes, hello. Thank you guys for having me. I'm happy to be here to chat. Yes, I am Rachel Hartley. I am a private practice dietitian, I guess if you're in Columbia, South Carolina today, but I live in Boston, but I just moved from Columbia. So I don't really know where I'm from right now. Confused every time people ask me that. But yeah, I in private practice where I work with clients on the whole sort of spectrum of everything from, you know, active eating disorders to really being just having general health and wellness concerns and approaching that from a non diet standpoint. And I wrote a book, which I guess we'll talk about. Yeah. Melissa Landry 2:43 sidebar wrote. It was amazing to watch the response to your book, Rachel, because I think a lot of people were craving this information. Dalina talks a lot about this on her page to where like, there's sometimes a tiptoeing around nutrition. And I mean, what what inspired you to write this book? Was it that there was a gap or or was there some other reason Rachael Hartley 3:04 I, you know, I was sort of thinking about it, I never, I never really imagined myself writing a book. And then this opportunity kind of presented itself. But I had always said, like, if I write a book about intuitive eating, I'd really love to explore gentle nutrition within intuitive eating, because there's just so much for very good reason, there is a lot of this tiptoeing around nutrition and sort of cautiousness about getting into nutrition on you know, Instagram, and, you know, on our blogs, for, again, very good reason, it's so hard to create content that is going to be applicable to a wide array of people. And that's especially true with something like nutrition, that is so individual. But I think what sort of happens is because there's this this gap where we don't talk about nutrition as much, it does a couple of things, like, you know, it makes it seem as if I don't know, like you, it makes intuitive eating almost seem like this, okay, like once you pass the first like nine principles, then like, bam, you've earned gentle nutrition. And now we're going to come out with our kale salad and, you know, green smoothies, and it just it was like, I think it makes gentle nutrition seem like something that it's it's not actually yeah, between that and then just when we don't have like we're dieticians, you know, we're experts in nutrition science. And so when we don't talk about food, and nutrition, it creates this gap and knowledge where diet culture can come in. Melissa Landry 4:41 Yeah, we did an episode about what the difference between like anti diet and maybe a weight loss approach to nutrition would be. And that was one of the things that Maria our guests talked about, too, is like when we don't talk about nutrition, this information can creep in and so there's such a thing as, like, avoidance. To our own detriment here for sure. Rachael Hartley 5:03 Yeah, people like deserve that sort of information. And you know, if we aren't creating it and talking about nutrition and more positive, helpful ways, like they're going to get that nutrition that information from elsewhere. And yeah, people deserve that, that that support. Melissa Landry 5:23 I was just talking with a client today who was saying, like, you know, sometimes she goes, I used to like cauliflower before it was demonized. And now I'm like, should I hate cauliflower? Because there's this big message of like, you know, don't put cauliflower in certain foods. And that's an important message. I know, deleted, you talk about all the time, right? Today. Today, I did a post on this. But using for people like sweet, does that mean cauliflower is bad? It's like, no, it just means that we can have our traditional and cultural foods. And so it's so confusing. Totally, Dalina Soto 5:53 it's important to understand, like, we have 2200 characters on an Instagram post, I cannot write every single thing that I want to say from my science background, and make it like, understandable. Like, I'm not just gonna hit you with the gluconeogenesis. And I call it like, they're gonna be like, What are you talking about? Right? Like, I don't understand what's happening here. That's what we want to do with the science, but yeah, you're not gonna understand. So we're trying to make this palatable for you. But also understand that like, you didn't go to school to be dieticians to not know the science and not care about nutrition, which I think is what a lot of the intuitive eating space on social media makes it seem like because it's like everybody with their pizza and their doughnuts and like eating ice cream. It's like, Yeah, we do that. But we also care about nutrition. Rachael Hartley 6:46 Right? Like we can normalize there's foods that I know that a lot of times are off limits, or people label as bad, but I think we you know, we can also normalize nutrition and engaging with that in a flexible way. Dalina Soto 7:01 Yeah. Melissa Landry 7:02 Do you also think it can be part of body appreciation, like these facts break down into teeny tiny parts, and then like, become our hair and our heart and our like, it's the coolest freakin thing like, yeah, appreciate that. And know what you're putting into your body does for you can have a neutral to positive connotation to it doesn't have to be negative and restrictive. Rachael Hartley 7:23 Totally. Like, I love to reframe gentle nutrition for my clients and talk a lot about like adequacy as an aspect of gentle nutrition. So I know like in my book I have and I have a blog post on this too, about, like the hierarchy of nutrition needs, and I have adequacy at the bottom. And so I think a lot of times, like, we hear people feel like Oh, if I'm not like, I'm working on these other parts of intuitive eating, and not gentle nutrition, but the most important aspect of nutrition is whether you're eating enough because if you're not, you're not getting like just like I don't know, having a vitamin C deficiency is not going to be great. Like having a carbohydrate deficiency is not great for our health. Having a fat deficiency is not great for our health, having an energy a caloric deficiency is not great for our health. And so it's almost like with intuitive eating, we're first kind of thinking about like, the macro. Are we getting enough calories, fat, protein, carbohydrates? And then, you know, let's take that step down and talk a little bit more about the micro. Melissa Landry 8:29 Yeah, the very thing that often gets demonized the most like that visual, Rachel was brilliant. Putting adequacy at the bottom, I saw that like, Oh, yeah, that makes sense. And I think it's really healing and powerful for people to see that because usually calories, fat, protein, carbs have all of these rules and regulations around them. And you're kind of saying like, what if we strove for enough at the base and then thought about other aspects, right? Dalina Soto 8:55 And I think also macros has become such a like, buzzy trendy word as well. And like, someone asked me yesterday in a group call, she's like, well, what is macro and micronutrients? physic? I just, like don't get it. And I'm like, that is an amazing question. So macronutrients are like what is us the base of our nutrition, like literally what our body needs to create cells and hair and nails like, like, they are the macro, the big picture energy that we need. protein, carbs, fat, micro, yes, we need them and we get them from our macros and they, they do have a smaller job, but we focus on the macros because of that, because they are what, what a creator. Allow us to live. Rachael Hartley 9:39 Yeah, right. Absolutely. It's just like, you know, it's so funny because diet culture is oftentimes this, you know, I talked about this with my clients and in the book, like, you know, it sort of frames nutrition is like, how can you eat the least amount physically possible without Keeling over? And yeah, you're like somehow supposed to be Getting all these like, you know, but also you need your like fiber and vitamin this and phytonutrients that, like, that's really hard to do. That's hard to meet your actual nutrient needs when you're restricting calories and fat and protein and carbs, though it really makes it easier for you to meet your micro nutrient needs by eating enough. Melissa Landry 10:22 How would you define gentle nutrition? So what would be a description of that for people who maybe don't know Rachael Hartley 10:28 what it is? Yeah, so it's funny, I, I've shared this on other podcasts before, but when I first turned in the manuscript for my book, my editor was like, I think you need to like actually, like, have a section where you like, define gentle, but I was like, Oh my gosh, it's the hardest thing to do. Because there isn't like a simple like a simple sentence definition of gentle nutrition. But I suppose if you guys are gonna make me a try, we are. We do it. You know, it's really just like nutrition science without the rigid rules. And, and without, like, all the sort of weight stuff that you see, you know, gentle nutrition, when I talk with my clients in the book gets very much like, What does nutrition look like, when we're focused on just helping you sort of feel good, feel energetic day to day, like, when you're eating in a way that helps you physically feel good, and helps you mentally feel good? So you know, it's definitely like a zoomed out, look at nutrition. So it's not this, like, you know, every single meal and every single snack, we have to be hyper focused on it. But really, it's you know, what happens when we integrate nutrition into the pattern of our eating over time? Like when we zoom out and look not just at the day, but look at the week, the month, the year? What are? Yeah, so it's that that big picture? Like, yeah, and then it's really like, just a positive way to view nutrition instead of focused on restriction and eliminating foods. We're focusing on adding foods and adding new adding nutrient rich foods and, and yeah, the the positive versus the subtraction. Melissa Landry 12:12 Yeah, I love that. And flexible, flexible, flexible. Rachael Hartley 12:15 and flexible, because it's different for every getting and thank you for adding that because that was I think the most important thing to add is that it's different for everyone, like when someone has maybe a certain nutrition related health diagnosis, or maybe for someone else, like nutrition just really isn't a priority or a top concern. And that's okay, too. nutrition for that person might be really different from someone who has, I don't know, type one diabetes, where maybe it does require a little bit more intensive, or just more awareness of the foods that we're eating and how we're eating. So yeah, Melissa Landry 12:54 I hear it like almost like the right and the left brain gets to come together in this principle or under this definition. Don't ask me what side is the thinking and the feeling right or left? I always mix it up like truly, but no, I mean, to say there is a thinking and a feeling side of all of us. That's what I mean. And with gentle nutrition, like your thinking and feeling side get to come together in a way that that is maybe more balanced rather than you know, when we're in dieting nutrition, it's like thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking thinking, like what you feel does not freakin matter. You're hungry doesn't matter, you're tired doesn't matter, your craving doesn't matter. So I don't know, that feels so like exciting that there can be balanced like that your culture doesn't matter. Yeah, culture out of here. Rachael Hartley 13:36 I totally was like, you know, following these external rules about like, what nutrition is supposed to be according to probably some like middle aged white dude who's making a lot of money off of bone. And, you know, it's not listening to yourself and paying attention to what feels good. I mean, we, if you think about just human beings, and what's allowed us to live all over the world, it's because we can make a meal out of anything. You know, we live in many different food environments. So the idea that there's like, one, right, being your one set of rules that's going to apply to everyone is just kind of absurd. Dalina Soto 14:17 Yeah, yeah. And I was actually last night, in the same group conversation, we were just talking about like the Latin x community and just how like there's the Caribbean, there's the South American part and how like, when you look back through history, you see all of the ingredients from each land that were used. And then when trade started happening, when migration started happening, we start seeing all of our foods kind of like look alike and like differ and like the traditional dishes that are like very much the light dish of the country like you know, the meal of the country looks different in a lot of places. But when you get down to the nitty gritty, we're all using a lot of the same ingredients, a lot of the same seasonings because everybody was walking around, give bringing each other the stuff that they had From their land, and we were able to create all of these meals. And when we look at nutrition, we were able to survive and evolve as humans, because we were eating these foods that were giving us those macros and bite growth. Right? And just because you grew up, or you know, like, like you said, these white middle aged men have this way of eating doesn't mean that it's right for you. We don't know what well, we do know where they come from, usually from like, very disordered ways of thinking. But they they're not taking us into consideration as a culture, I would say, right, like when they're making their guidelines, or their the way that they're thinking they're using stereotypes and or no knowledge at all, to recommend the things that they recommend to Melissa Landry 15:42 color. And then the flip side is that like, oh, anything, but is not nutritious. This is true. As Rachel's pointing out, like we're built to survive, we're going to figure it out, we're going to blend what we need to. And it's so much more than one way. Rachael Hartley 15:55 Right, right. Absolutely. Yeah. And it's Yeah, it's, you know, it's interesting, because I was thinking back to it was a book I read ages ago, and I can't, it was actually more this is like, I mean, probably 15 years ago, when I or 20 years ago, when I was in school. I checked myself there, but I just it was something about fast food. And I remember them saying something about like, oh, when a country doesn't have like a food culture, there's more space for for fast food to come in. And I actually sort of think about, like, you know, in terms of like diet culture, in sort of white America there. I think in many ways, there isn't as much of a cultural connection with food. And this is a blanket statement that isn't necessarily true for everyone, but as a generality, and I but I think because there's been so much less of a connection that with our, you know, with the food culture, that that's really created this space, like, I mean, not so much with fast food. For me, I think more of a diet culture. You know, there's this, like, lovely protection, that when we have this cultural connection to a way of eating that it can be this wonderful protective thing against Yeah, against diet culture. Melissa Landry 17:12 Yeah. Oh, that's so good. Because like diet culture, as shitty as it is, can bond people, right? Like, we can have something in common. Like we're afraid of the same foods. We're tracking the same way we talk and think the same way. And so that's such a great insight, Rachel, like, in the absence of something that Bond's us like, we're also scrappy at that we'll create it. Yeah. And if it's dysfunctional, and that just goes to show you how important food is to culture, and identity and feeling welcomed and social. Exactly. That was the word I was looking for. You got that? I finished your sentences. Okay, Rachel, you're tapping on something, though, that I think a lot of people get a little confused about when they step into intuitive eating. And that's how to measure your well being or like, how do you know gentle nutrition is working? If you have made the choice to not use the scale as your metric to say, Oh, good job, that job. A lot of people miss that when they give up dieting, they want to know that they're, you know, on the right path. So how does gentle nutrition think about measuring success? Is it even part of the thinking? What is your take on that? Yeah, well, Rachael Hartley 18:20 what I always say is that, you know, we get to define what health means to us. You know, what, what I define as hell. Melissa Landry 18:28 We're dancing. We're dancing. Yeah, I Rachael Hartley 18:30 can't see that on the podcast. But yeah, you know, you get to define what healthy is for you. And it really is not one, you know, certain nerve wracking way of measuring it. You know, things like how are you just kind of physically feeling day to day, maybe certain lab values that you're trying to be mindful or aware of high cholesterol runs in my family, no matter how I eat, I will always have high cholesterol because Dalina Soto 18:58 oh my god, me too. Rachel, I talk about this in my groups all the time. Rachael Hartley 19:02 It's just like, it's just who we are, is born that way like yeah, like I will always have high cholesterol and I want to be slightly aware of that because I mean, thankfully we don't have a major family history of heart disease. But being a human being with anxiety, I do tend to get a little health anxiety so I want to be like, mindful that that might be something that I'm looking at, you know things like for people who are you know, athletes or even just you know, doing active pursuits day to day like hiking or just fun things like to have the energy to do the things that you like to do mental your mental health around food, like we put so much emphasis on physical health but you know, even if you had I don't know if there was some sort of like, prick your finger and you get a printed out and get a drop of blood and you know exactly the quote, like right way of eating for your physical health. Like, I don't know if that that just sounds really stressful. If I do it, Dalina Soto 20:01 they do it. Yeah, like companies that do this. Yeah. And Rachael Hartley 20:04 their total BS. Like if we had, like, even if we had like one that was actual like, you know, real, real, like we knew 100% without a doubt, that still doesn't honor your mental health like that. That's a stressful way of eating when Oh, and I was really helped. Yeah. Dalina Soto 20:22 And I would like to point out that, like, there's ranges for these numbers for reasons. So you and I have a genetic predisposition to make more cholesterol, like it's genetic. And so therefore, our cholesterol, when we get lab work, probably a slightly high not to the point where they're like, you need medication, but like, no matter what we do, is slightly elevated, and we monitor it, we monitor it, because we know that it's genetic. And we know that there's obviously things that we can add to our nutrition, there's healthy behaviors that we can do that could keep it at bay, but it doesn't define every single aspect of our life, like it is genetic. And it is what it is. And I think that to me, that's what gentle nutrition is, as well, like, it's understanding that there's ranges, there's genetics, there's like so much goes into it, then it's not just Melissa Landry 21:15 and you get to what was your priority of what that is in your life. Like for many of you listening, you've been dieting for years and years and years. And the choice you may choose to make is that my mental health is more important at this season in my life than my physical health. And for many people that prioritization can be a really important path to like landing into gentle nutrition because it's really hard to back into this and prioritize it again, if you've never had the chance to look at your mental health and what that means to you. So it's all about what you want. Rachael Hartley 21:49 Right? Right. You have your entire life to like, I don't know, eat cauliflower or broccoli or it's vegetables aren't go. And of course that I caveat of that. And gentle nutrition isn't just about like, vegetables and fruit. Not all of it. But yeah, I mean, there you've got the rest of your life to make changes to the way that you're eating. So let's let's focus on healing your relationship with food now. And if you have to put a more intentional awareness of nutrition on the back burner, but that's okay. Melissa Landry 22:23 can always come back. Yep, 1000s change, priorities changed. Truly the things I cared about 10 years ago, are wildly different than the things I care about now. I'll follow suit in that. So I'll let you all do your own math with your land. Dalina Soto 22:37 And your needs will change as you grow. And you evolve and you still have like what you learn and gentle nutrition and what you want in this season of your life. And what you need will also change as you get older. So it's like that's the whole point of intuitive eating to understand it so well that you can evolve and grow with it. We Melissa Landry 22:54 joked once about my crickety knees when I stand up and sit down. Another thing that happens is like my digestion is changing. So, okay, I joke all the time, like my mother, my grandmother, older women in my life would always like Oh, the I should Oh, yeah. And I'd be like, I always complain. And I'm like, Oh, dear, that was a real experience. And my genetics are manifesting. Yeah, speak. Rachael Hartley 23:17 realize you're related to your family. That's Melissa Landry 23:21 that's like a whole therapy session. I'm related to my family helped me unpack that. So true. Okay, we've got one more question for you. This one I feel like is the hot ticket question. It's about meal planning. I feel like diet culture has ruined meal planning for scidac like I decked it hijacked it, it conjures up images of like, clear plastic containers of uniform size stacked up in the fridge, measuring cups, recipes that tastes like garbage that you're eating while the rest of your family enjoys normal quote normal foods. What do we do if we have been through the wringer with meal planning? How do you approach meal planning under the gentle nutrition lens? Rachael Hartley 24:01 Yeah, so I try to reframe meal planning as what I like to call meal preparedness which is very similar but a little bit different. You know, I focus on meal preparedness more as how can we be prepared with whenever we need to be able to access like satisfying meals tasty, satisfying meals that you know, that just Are you know, what, don't always have to be exactly the thing that you want to eat in the moment, but make it easy for you to feed yourself. So what that means is like, you know, making sure you're like going to the grocery store and that you have like food in your house. I can't tell you how many and I'm sure you guys do this too with like your clients where you know, when you get to that, you know, there was days where you run out of your your sort of groceries and it's just like the last step that you're trying to use that like it just makes decision making around food release. Last fall, you know, how can we have maybe that's having ingredients to prepare something that you really enjoy that simple to put together? Maybe for some people and just like their season of life, what they've got going on, maybe it does look like making something like a big batch meal that you have, you know, I'll, you know, I'll package together because that makes your, you know, makes lunch simple for you during the week. But it doesn't have to be. Yeah, so really just reframing it towards having the things you need to make food easier and more accessible to you Melissa Landry 25:34 love that like setting up an environment where you can choose the things that you want, and that you value with a little less effort, maybe. Rachael Hartley 25:41 Exactly, exactly. Like when you're hungry, and you're making a decision about what you want to eat, that decision making process is going to be so stressful. You know, it just any decision that you make when your brain and like your blood sugar is low is always going to be much harder. But yeah, I mean, it's just doing a little bit of that preparedness, a little bit of the thinking in advance so that you have some flexible options. For me something that really helps is like getting the ingredients to like cook a few meals each week. But also I loved you know, I know the plate. Well. Now I'm learning the places in Boston that are near me that are like easily easy and mockable and enjoyable and other fun little like neighborhood places Melissa Landry 26:26 that I have to trade notes after. Dalina Soto 26:27 Hey, we're gonna I'm gonna bring you over the Momo. Rachael Hartley 26:30 Momo. But also to like having things like frozen food, you know, having a frozen pizza. And that's like available to whip up, you know, having things that are a little pantry meals that you can throw together, having eggs and toast and whatever. So yeah, Melissa Landry 26:48 Rachel, I gotta say you make beautiful food on your stories, you periodically put up images of these beautiful recipes. And I love that you have kind of introduced some of that because many times we do get into ruts and we need inspiration. So even if you're not following it to a tee, it's like, Oh, that looks interesting, like, like it's inspiring to see those things. Yeah. Dalina Soto 27:09 And I like to also tell, you know, my two loves that like, ordering out or like getting a frozen meal. Like it's a great way to try new cuisine. It's a great way to try a vegetable and in a traditional way. It's a great way to just learn your food preferences. Because so often everything is health defying meals like add this to this, substitute this for that like no, like cauliflower for instance, though. So like with your client, like she loves cauliflower. We don't have to be afraid to eat like I get that point. But also like it does. It's not right, right. Melissa Landry 27:47 That's called flow. Well, the whole curiosity and like, having some adventure with food can get really good. Dalina Soto 27:54 Yes. And like a frozen meal is perfect for that. Because it's inexpensive. It's quick. So if you want to experiment, frozen meals are an amazing way for you to see what you like, go into a restaurant is a great way to see what you like, you don't have to make a whole batch for a week and then be like shit, this tastes nasty. And now what am I going to do with it? Melissa Landry 28:14 It's a very sad Garbage Pail moment after that. Rachael Hartley 28:19 Yeah, I mean, like, there's that. So I had, like, I knew nothing about like, I feel like me and me and my husband are pretty like adventurous eaters. We always travel a lot. And I never had tried Cadbury cuisine. And there's a place that's like two blocks from our house. And that's become like our new favorite that we like walk over to it and like we don't know what anything is there. We've started like asking for like, the first time we went, we're like, let's just like point at a bunch of stuff that looks tasty, but like now we're starting to learn about caper de cuisine, and I love it. And it's such a fun, like, just adventurous and I don't even know if adventurous is like the right word because that seems sort of silly, but just yeah, it just really it's exciting, I think is what I'm trying to make like food a lot more exciting and interesting. And yeah, and I just think like you were saying those the meals are really accessible. Like, it might not always be the you know, air quote, like the best version of whatever but I just like different flavor profiles that you're getting. Taste Melissa Landry 29:20 gives you a little dabble. It's like the hop on hop off bus tour, you get a little moment you can go to the next one. We don't have to we don't have to stick around. Rachael Hartley 29:27 Right. And you know what something is like when you see it on a menu somewhere like if there was like a birthday or frozen meals I might like not have just been doing that awkward. Ah, that looks Melissa Landry 29:36 good. That looks good. Look like another thing that sometimes people feel lost around when they stopped dieting is like the newness and the novelty when you get a new plan and it's exciting and we all have a need for newness and excitement. That's human. And so I encourage all of you guys to be thinking about what are ways I can have that feeling again, in a new positive lens. Now that I'm in intuitive eating, and Rachel, that's like a great role model, like people need to be googling their local spots and testing out what's out what's out there. I love it. Rachael Hartley 30:08 I appreciate you saying that about sharing, say I went, you know, especially in the book with the recipes, I kind of went back and forth and over thought a lot about including recipes. But I really wanted at the end of the day to, you know, show people like, here's ways that you can integrate nutrition and are really a gentle way And still, like, have satisfaction and taste as like number one, and then maybe integrate some nutrition. And so that's what I try to do, like, whenever it Melissa Landry 30:33 gets great, and you're helping people's brains see that same piece of media in a totally new way. And that's really what the freedom is, is like, Look scales and recipes and plastic containers can be neutral. Those things can mean nothing to you someday, can you imagine not having those things hold you in and be the center point of your life? And Rachael, I think it just gives such a nice destination for people in your book. So I love and thank you for contributing that to our space. Rachael Hartley 31:02 Absolutely. I really appreciate that. That really means a lot. Melissa Landry 31:07 Do you have one takeaway? And this is like such a jerk question to ask like, hey, like, we're just we just got through saying like, I can't post in 2000 characters. And I'm like, hey, Rachel, was about to give us a one liner. Maybe I'll want to lower the scope a little bit from this conversation. What was maybe the takeaway from this conversation? Or the thing that really stuck with you having gone through your gentle nutrition work? Rachael Hartley 31:31 No, I'm actually going to feed it answer your first question. Not even like, what would I add? Because I do have a wetland I love it. I would ask, now I'm prepared Dalina Soto 31:42 for Rachel. Rachael Hartley 31:44 Like, I'm gonna show up, I'm very rarely prepared for something. So I want to show it up new I think I always joke that like the thesis of my book is if you want to, you know, if you want to eat a bit healthier, like you have to chill out about nutrition a little bit. And I think that is really a takeaway from you know, not just this conversation, but hopefully my work is that, like, it's okay to want to, you know, eat a little bit healthier, but also when we look at nutrition is the end all be all of health. That really does a disservice to it. I mean, we're all dietitians, so I don't want to downplay our role in health care, but like, I don't know, it just sort of seems to me if we put food and nutrition is like the number one thing it's kind of like a I don't know, like a cardiologist saying like, oh, cardiology is like the most important part of you know, of health and like turning their nose up, but like all the other No, like the kidney doctors and Melissa Landry 32:38 the podiatrists, you know, the world which Rachael Hartley 32:41 you know, which is you know, if you have a foot problem, like that's your most important person. That is my little say, Melissa Landry 32:53 right? If you've only gotten to this part of the podcast, chill out, thank you. And End of Episode, and episode. That's the destination. We all know the process to getting there is hard work. And so I appreciate anyone out there doing it. I work on filling out constantly. So I'll just take that advice for free. Thank you. Rachel, I'm so excited. We have you up here in Boston. Now. I hope we get to meet IRL sometime soon. And I want to thank you for spending time with us. Can you tell us where our listeners can find you? Dalina Soto 33:25 Yeah, so you can connect with me on my website. Rachel Hartley, nutrition calm and Rachel is spelled h e l. So ra ch AE L and yeah, and then on Instagram, I'm pretty active on there at oh my gosh, what is my handle? Oh, it's at Rachel Hartley rd. Melissa Landry 33:45 That's your name. And so we are going to be sure to tag Rachel in the show notes as well as in our posts on at break the diet pod Instagram. Thank you so much for being here today. Make sure you grab Rachel's book if you have not yet. I think it's such a great way to model but gentle nutrition can look Dalina Soto 34:03 like in your life. Rachael Hartley 34:05 Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. Melissa Landry 34:08 Thanks, everybody. Buh bye. I we have completed the intuitive eating series. We have talked about all the principles, we landed on nutrition. I'm so excited to have offered this to everybody. Yeah, I mean, Dalina Soto 34:24 I feel like it's just we had to do it in a way because like we kind of like didn't do it at the beginning. We should have started here. Oh, Diane, here we are. You know, and sometimes we're like, I still don't understand what this is for Melissa Landry 34:38 like from the top back to the top. Okay, rewind, but we're here and we did it and Rachel was amazing. I forgot to tell you after the recording she reached out and invited me to swing by her place and she made a delicious what she called a low control there you know who and why Do tell me this as well recording this to Dalina, you live in Philly, if you just sprung this on me, but this is the thing. We had our good times I made delicious food and I'm just sharing this to reinforce her book. And her ability to put food together. I got to try it firsthand. It was a very fun time and we are talking about we're going to talk about our reunion so that the gang can all get together the anti dilution friends IRL is important. It is important I miss people. I do. I knew it was such a joy to have a Boston dietitian friend it's so great. But I want you to know, listen to me, you're still on a squeeze no more. I am very upset right now. Because she's like stay in the house. No other friends. Too funny. We will have our time we got to get a conference going or something we need to like we I want to learn some more I want to learn so we can keep sharing what we know with our listeners here to give them the very best of the intuitive eating world Dalina Soto 36:06 is one a hotel and a nice bed Melissa Landry 36:12 in room service Dalina Soto 36:17 plagued by fire to what I call Melissa Landry 36:21 I'm a nerd. I like learning. And then I like hanging out afterwards. But no getting getting food together is the best part. Yeah, yeah. Better Sure. Are they eating at the nutrition conferences is always on point. It was a good time. Yeah, it'll come back someday. It'll get back. I really liked doing this series. This episode was super fun and got the wheels turning on nutrition not taboo to talk about it and intuitive. Though I think at this point, we're gonna switch gears or final two episodes, we'll talk a little bit more about our personal takes on food freedom. We'll be diving into that if you are liking what you're hearing. It's helpful. Leave us an honest review. We want to know what you're thinking of these episodes. And we'll look forward to seeing you on Instagram just like we found each other. Dalina Soto 37:16 Yes, peace, love and break the diet cycle.