Do you think about food 24/7? Does it make you feel distracted and guilty? Many people minimize this experience by telling themselves “it’s not bad enough to get help” – which is why we want to share Lauren’s story as a former client of No More Guilt group coaching.
Lauren talks about the ways in which her disordered dieting behaviors get normalized – and even praised through her life. We discuss what orthorexia is and how it doesn’t always link to body image concerns. Lauren reveals when she realized her relationship to food was a valid problem in her life, and how she overcame the idea that certain foods are “good” and others are “bad” in order to let go of dieting for good.
Through Lauren’s story, you’ll get an honest take about how to overcome the challenging parts of Intuitive Eating – plus hear what she’s doing now to deepen her recovery over time!
This is a do not miss episode if you’ve ever wondered if your own relationship with food was worthy of help. DM us after this episode – we want to hear your take!
Follow our guest on Instagram: @laurenpinersc
Join the Break the Diet Cycle Podcast Community in Instagram: @break.the.diet.pod
Connect with Melissa on Instagram: @no.more.guilt
Connect with Dalina on Instagram: @your.latina.nutritionist
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This episode was sponsored by No More Guilt with Melissa Landry. Reminder that though we are dietitians, we’re not *YOUR* dietitian. Podcasts don’t constitute treatment. If you have concerns about your dieting behaviors, seek out guidance from a medical or mental health professional. And if you’re looking for the process, support, and focus you need to live life without food guilt apply for a coaching program from today’s sponsor. No More Guilt with Melissa Landry is currently enrolling clients into 1:1 programs, group programs, and, recently added a do-it-yourself learning format: the Ex-Dieter’s Guide to No More Guilt.
what is orthorexia? with lauren p (melissa’s former client) transcript
Dalina Soto 0:02 Hola hola chulas Melissa Landry 0:04 Hi there. We are experts in intuitive eating for on again off again chronic dieters, and we are here to help you take the guilt and stress out of eating so you can become the first in your family to break the diet cycle, just like we are in our families. Dalina Soto 0:19 We want you to be who you are without food guilt. Be sure Melissa Landry 0:22 Be sure to follow us on Instagram. No more guilt for Melissa and your Latina nutritionist for Dalina. Dalina Soto 0:29 Are you ready? Let's break the diet cycle. Melissa Landry 0:32 Hey, it's me Melissa. Before we start, I want to let you know that this episode is brought to you by no more guilt with Melissa Landry. What you're about to listen to is not a professional coaching or counseling session. Each episode is a one time conversation meant for educational purposes. Look, we're dieticians. But we're not your dietician. Remember that podcasts don't constitute treatment. If you have concerns about your dieting behaviors, seek out guidance from a medical or mental health professional. And if you're looking for the process, support and focus you need to live life without food guilt apply for a coaching program from today's sponsor, me. I'm currently enrolling clients into one to one programs group programs and I recently added a do it yourself format the X dieters guide to no more guilt apply for a program at Melissa Landry nutrition calm, I hope to meet you soon. So my dear Delina, we are right now recording this on National Eating Disorders Awareness Week. So any of you who maybe saw this a few weeks back on social media might have seen a lot of support from dieticians, therapists people needing to sort of space raising awareness. And today's episode brings in a former client of mine, Lauren, who so wonderfully and vulnerably share her story, which I think a lot of you have in common, where she didn't have a formal diagnosis for eating disorder. And for a lot of years, it made her wonder if her situation was quote bad enough? Or what kind of help would she even get? Being in a bigger body? You know, and I think that that is a really difficult thing. When you're struggling with food and you're obsessing with it. 24/7 you go. Don't think that I have an eating disorder. But this has definitely impacted my life. So I'm so thrilled to share her story with you. For some of you who feel like you're in that more quote, disordered eating versus eating disorder category. And Dalina pulled up some statistics, can I share this with you? Let's do it. Because I want I want to set the stage. Of course, yeah, it's important. So I'm looking here. And last year, when they did the prevalence or how often it's happening around eating disorders, it jumped from 3.4 to 7.8%. Why is that? I mean, maybe we are becoming more aware and people are going to get diagnoses, maybe the pandemic did exacerbate big time. Yeah. I also know that dieting statistics have increased in parallel with that. And dieting is a major trigger for eating disorders. It doesn't necessarily cause an eating disorder, eating disorders are really they're brought on by a lot of different factors. But it's interesting to think about as dieting gets normalized, how eating disorders grows in this current culture. Dalina Soto 3:12 For sure, it's crazy because it's a slippery slope, for sure. Yeah, Melissa Landry 3:17 if we put this in the numbers, that means 30 million Americans are living with eating disorders. It's the third most common chronic illness among adolescent females 10 million men will suffer from an eating disorder. And the lifetime prevalence of eating disorders highest among those with binge eating disorder, which I think might surprise a lot of people. Since there can be stigma around binging in general, which we've talked about a lot on this podcast. So in the spirit of Eating Disorder Awareness, we wanted to normalize and say this is really common recovery is possible. And if you are someone who doesn't maybe crossed the line into eating disorders, and you struggle with it, that struggle is valid. And so with that, let's hear a little bit of Lauren's story and see if you can relate. Dalina Soto 4:01 One more thing chulas we know how hard you are working to break the diet cycle out there. We appreciate that work. Because we know every single one of you who breaks a diet cycle is making our world more inclusive and safe for others to do the same. It's personal, we get it. That's probably why you're listening to a podcast. It's private and at your own pace. That's why if you've ever found benefit from this podcast, we want you to review and rate us there are more people like you who want the same benefit. Helping our podcast get found by women like you is the best way to help us further our mission to break the diet cycle. We literally couldn't do it without you. Will you review us after you listen to this episode. Thanks to chula. Melissa Landry 4:46 So Dalina that today. I get to introduce you to one of my amazing former clients Lauren, and she is here to talk a little bit about her experience working through some food rules and what that meant for her. We're going to talk about But I want to give too much away because I want Lourdes to be able to talk about her unique experience. But Lauren, welcome to the podcast. Before we jump in on like questions and all that, can you tell the audience a little bit about you? And what led you to join the No More Guilt community. Lauren 5:14 Yeah, absolutely. So I'm, let's just say in my mid to late 30s. But much like many kids that were grown in the 90s, my mom was doing the low fat, no fat kind of thing. And she was very worried about health and weight. You know, just like everybody else that lives in this society, it seems like so that was kind of like how I started, my mom was always straight size, and relatively thin. But she was always worried about, you know, her size changing, and my size changing. And when I was in college, I put on weight just like most people do when they live in a dorm. And that kind of started even though I had been sort of conscious about my way and, you know, aware of what I was eating and what I should make in quotes for people who can't see me be doing. I definitely didn't really start dieting until college. And once I started in college, it sort of snowballed from there. And I, you know, kind of went all over the place, I felt like I tried everything with is specifically for me with different kinds of food combinations, I was less about calorie restriction and a lot more about, like tracking my macros and making sure I get enough protein and eat enough fat and like, you know, so I, I felt like I wasn't starving myself. So I must be doing it. Right. So there's a little bit more, but that's kind of like my background and sort of how I started to feel like, like, no matter what I did, there was no right answer there was it never worked, right? Because diets don't work. But I spent probably almost 20 years trying to figure that out. Melissa Landry 7:05 Yeah. And Lauren, you're bringing up such a interesting point that I think many of our listeners go through where nowadays, the messaging about restriction and dieting, and the anti diet movement is out there. And I do notice something like, oh, no, I'm not dieting, I'm not I'm not counting calories, because there is sort of, I don't know, it's sort of like a feminist undertone, like I'm getting, there's like a light touch of body positivity, where we feel like it's obvious not to calorie count. But then it shapes shifts into this thing you're experiencing, which is like, but what I am doing is a lifestyle change. But what I am doing is my nutrition and optimizing and you know, doing the good right things by my nutrition. So, right, some people see it more traditionally, again, all these air quotes all the time, but traditional presentation of disordered eating and eating disorders is cut the foods out, get smaller, etc, etc. But there are these kind of atypical presentations, I think, because our diet culture is making it shaped shifty. What do you think about that it? Was that sort of what your experience was, like, you're moving away from the calorie stuff into the food rule or, you know, morality piece? Lauren 8:15 Yeah, definitely. I probably didn't calorie restrict for, I don't know, maybe 10 to 15 years of the time that I was dieting. So it was only in the first few years that I did any calorie restriction in it. And even then, it wasn't very drastic, it was always kind of, you know, limiting that again, with the quotes. not starving myself, but trying to reduce calorie intake a little bit in that way. But yeah, I mean, I tried all kinds of different you know, like I said, Before, I tried the macros, I tried keto, I tried whole 30 I did sort of at my wit's end, I started working with a health coach who really had the best of intentions, but didn't prove to be particularly helpful for me. And she put me on an elimination diet, because I do have a lot of GI issues, particularly GERD is the big one. And I definitely was trying to use food as medicine and treat my record by eating whatever food I was supposed to eat or not supposed to eat. And I think what is really striking to me is that sometimes when I was on those diets, I actually did feel good, like I was eating, you know, all vegetables and all like really, you know, like high protein, low carb, and it did make me feel good. It was just impossible to sustain. And so it really did feel like I was just not able to do the right things. Because I felt better and so like obviously like a better person than me could do it. Right. And again, I'm with the air quotes, and they would feel good all the time like it did when I could die it, but I couldn't do it. And so it was a really, like I said before, it was sneaky it was it was just very underhanded almost in a way it kind of creeped into my life and my lifestyle and and really got me is a is what it comes down to. And it was scary to kind of look at both when I was sort of in the throes of it like to look at the choices I was making and knowing that they were helping me in a certain way, but also just not understanding how I could ever keep up with them. And how I could ever be healthy. And then like once I kind of looked back at it. You know, once I sort of came out of the fog of diet culture a little bit, it was also scary to look back and be like, and think about all the harm I had done to my body when I was trying to help myself in a way that I think is probably pretty common for a lot of people, at least to varying degrees. Melissa Landry 11:05 And think you're so right about that. I mean, Dalina, you hear little flecks of this story in your work all the time and of that. Dalina Soto 11:12 Yeah, yeah, I call it dieting on the DL. Because, because it doesn't seem like you're dieting, right? You're just like working towards your health. There's my quotation quotes are more close to, and it's so hard to feel like, but I'm doing this for my health, right, you're doing it for GERD, you don't want to feel bad. And again, all of the information that we see out there is coming from a restriction place instead of how Melissa and I were really taught, which is like how do you add nutrition but somehow, we have convoluted it sell and restriction cells, shrinking cells, health ism cells. And so it's unfortunate because what we were taught was not necessarily the information that most people are putting out whether it's a nutritionist, a dietician, medical professionals, like we get down to the nitty gritty and textbooks were pretty much talking about adding nutrition a lot of the time, right, but that's not sexy. Melissa Landry 12:15 It's not. But also what's not sexy is how it impacted you aren't like, you know, this is we can sit here and intellectualize the, how it happened. And you know, people have good intentions and this and that. But this, these are real stories and real impact. And so I hope anyone listening, kind of go, Okay, I'm not the only person. Like, because that was the big struggle for you. I heard you say like, I wanted to do the right thing. And there I was thought I was doing the right thing. And that was a difficult process for you to kind of grieve like, your idea of the right thing. wind up not being the right thing for you in the end. So tell me a little bit about that part with the right thing thinking? Lauren 12:54 Yeah, there was a lot of time that I just spent, you know, trying to find like the Holy Grail diet, like the one that I could stick to and feel good doing. And, and I I know now that that is not a thing. But that I would try all these different things. And I would, you know, do them for a little bit of time. And none of them were really intended to be done all the time. Even most dieters don't recommend you stay on keto forever, it's just supposed to be to help you lose weight. And then you get into that maintenance phase, which we all know isn't real, but I didn't then so yeah, it was definitely kind of a it kind of blew my mind how I would work so hard to be healthy. And I still don't really know if in my mind, being healthy was being skinny or being healthy was being healthy. Because I did want to be healthy. If someone had told me what you're doing is hurting yourself. I don't know if I would have listened. But I I'd like to think I would have because that was actually my goal. My goal was to to be healthier, and to live in my body comfortably. And I just didn't understand that what I was doing, could never get me there and was actually making it worse. And that was another thing that was just really hard to deal with overall because you know, I would be working so hard and at the time I I was super active and I exercised a lot. I still don't know if that was like part of the orthorexia. Or if it was just like kind of where I was at in my life, I'm still relatively active. And exercise definitely helps clear my mind and it was a stressful time in my life. So maybe this is like at the height. I mean, obviously this has happened for a long time, but sort of right before my breaking point. And I was around people who were like competing for fitness and I was mostly doing like pole dancing and hand balance which was so fun. I still do some of it sometimes. I loved it. But, you know, everybody around me was just like, well, I just come here two hours a day, and I eat whatever I want. Like, why can't come here two hours a day. Or they'd be like, well, I come here two hours a day, and then I'm on keto, or, you know, I, I don't eat dairy or whatever it was, it didn't, it didn't really matter. But like, it was just so hard to be like, Well, okay, but like I do, I come here four times a week for an hour every time and I exercise when I'm at home, and I eat well, whatever that meant in my head at the time, and it didn't matter. Like, because I've done so much damage. And because people aren't the same, right? Like, it doesn't matter what I do, I'm never going to change my body composition, like i There's only so much you can do about that. And it was, it was really hard to just sort of be like, knocked out every time. You know, like, every time I fell off the bandwagon, or every time I tried something, and it didn't work that well, which got more and more common. The the longer I had been dieting, of course, the harder it was to lose any weight. And the more extreme the diet had to be to get there. That was the hard part. And I mean, the other hard part is that everybody told me I was doing great. Everyone, right, like every, like my trainers, my doctors, my friends, some of my friends stopped that towards the end. But, you know, it was to the point where I just felt like, I was doing my best. And I was doing everything I could to be healthy and skinny. But it just didn't work. And that was when I called the health coach to work with her. And like I said, ultimately, that didn't work out so well for me. But you know, because I did, it went on an elimination diet. And ultimately, that just was even more restriction, right. And Melissa Landry 16:59 it was more of the same. And I think that's what happens to people is like they sometimes can work with a weight centric provider as their last appeal. Like maybe this I'm just I'm kind of a broken person, right? I obviously can't figure this out. everyone's cheering me on. And it's a such a confusing experience. The idea is maybe I need some support for my person. Maybe I needed coaching applies is almost more motivational, more value building and all that. But we talked about this in our episode of new a couple weeks ago. Now for those listening. There's no amount of psychology or motivational skill to override the binge restrict cycle driven biologically. That's it that is not something that one can overcome with good character and pick up their bootstraps and lots of like gurus book cheering Yeah, it doesn't matter how many you invest in. And so I mean, for you, it sounds like at some point, it kind of hit ahead. And I'm wondering, when you hit that, we'll call it like, quote, rock bottom right? Where you're like, Oh, my God, nothing's working. I feel we can tell us how did you feel at that moment? And then what, what actually led you to choose the intuitive eating path? Because I think a lot of our listeners are like, Okay, I see myself in Lauren's story, but I am not a little terrified. So tell him, how did you come to that conclusion? You wanted to move in that direction? Lauren 18:24 Yeah, you know, I was starting to see some red flags. But even I could identify, and later talking to my friends, they were like, Yeah, we thought too, but like, we didn't know what to say like, how do you how do you talk to someone about that, and like, they ultimately were like it. And again, like, I never got to a point where I was like too skinny or anything like that, again, with my quotes. But I never was not eating at all. I never, I always was eating vegetables and stuff. But it was complicated. So I was starting to feel like I had a friend, I still have a friend who's a nurse practitioner. And I was starting to get anxious about talking to her about what diet of the day I was on. And I didn't really think about it at the time. But looking back now, it occurs to me that like, perhaps I did know that I was doing some things that weren't healthy for me. And that is like she never said anything. I want to be super clear. She was always very kind and helpful, but and the only reason I talked to her about my food at all is that we would eat dinner together. And so we'd have to pick a restaurant that I could eat at, which was always complicated that she, you know, like I said, never called me out on it never said anything, but I definitely felt anxiety that she might. Right. So that was kind of like maybe a sign that I was like, oh, maybe I'm maybe these choices aren't doing what I think they're doing. But I didn't fully realize it in the moment. What really happened is that I finished with my health coach by this point. I mean, I spent 1000s of dollars are setting this problem. This problem again, what's the quoting? Because the one that diet culture created, right? Like it wasn't a problem until I made it a problem? Melissa Landry 20:12 Well you didn't make it a problem you, because you, here you are. And I want to make sure anyone who's going through this, like, you are someone who cares about her health. And, you know, we're not going to be able to go into all the things that I learned about you, Lauren, but like you're a very driven person, you value your relationships so much, you have all that within you. And you were told that if you put those good parts of you on this solution, you will get from A to B, that sometimes happens in life, right? When people say, I don't know, we can think of different kinds of skill. If you follow these steps, this will occur. And for some things, that is true. So if anyone ever got duped by this, it's like how are you supposed to know like, professionals are telling you everyone in your life is like, Oh, I'm dieting. I go to pole class for four hours a day. Like, that's, like, that's a thing. And so, I just think it's so important that we like, give ourselves so much grace, because it's how are you supposed to know and unfortunately, stories like this are how we know and that's why I'm really grateful. If anyone's listening, they can they can be like, Oh, okay, like, here's something that validates my experience. It's not just doctors and friends, cheering me on or saying nothing. You know that it's okay. If you're feeling like it's not the right path anymore. So, Lauren 21:28 yeah, yeah, that's, I mean, that's ultimately what happened. I was sort of at my wit's end, I had paid the health coach, and I had, you know, done the elimination diet done everything. And I didn't know what else to do. Like, I knew that I couldn't go back to doing keto full time, because it was just too hard to maintain. I always felt crappy for the first week, and then I would feel great. And then I would feel okay, but then I would inevitably lose it. And I had to either start over, which I never wanted to do, because I felt crappy for the first week. So I just gave myself a break. I told myself, I wasn't going to die it I wasn't going to worry about what I was eating, I was just going to try to take care of myself and the best way I could. And I remember very clearly standing in the PetSmart parking lot listening to the wrong about podcasts about the obesity epidemic. And just being like, What do you mean 95% of diets fail. And I knew like the diets don't work thing. But I always thought it was like calorie restricting not what I was doing what I was doing was right. And, you know, they talk about the old study, that's like 300,000 people die from obesity every year, which isn't true, because we just decided that anyone who's who's overweight or obese by the BMI, and they die, it's probably because they're overweight or obese. And like, that's not real. And I was just like, I like stood in the middle of the parking lot like what everything I believed was wrong. Melissa Landry 23:08 No, it's It's kind of like that transformative moment where you suddenly see it's like the matrix, right? Like you took the pill. And you can see everything. Lauren 23:16 Yeah, it was really like that it was and I remember, like they talked about I listened to it again this morning, because I was like, Where was that moment for me? I just knew I was listening to the podcast. And it was also just like, our like, biologically, we're not meant to lose weight, intentionally, like, that's not what we're meant to do. And your body is going to fight to get you back to whatever you were at more and more, and I sort of knew that like peripherally, but I just thought like, well, I can do it. And, you know, somehow through that I found Intuitive Eating movement. And then I found the two of you on Instagram and sort of went from there and eventually took the plunge to work with you, Melissa. And, and I'm really glad I did. I mean, I'm not going to sit here and tell you I'm better and that I never have problems but better. But it's still something I struggled with. And I've been working on it for probably a year and a half now. Melissa Landry 24:20 Yeah. That's an honest thing to share with people right like you in your lifetime have been swimming in certain messages and practicing certain behaviors and getting rewarded for certain behaviors by socially right by society, by family, by friends, maybe by yourself. Yeah. And joining programs and doing the work does not mean a light switch and that in and of itself is a relief because we are a front telling you this process is not a light switch unlike diets, like diets which tell you just do this and in 60 days, 90 days we can prove. Nope. Instead what happens is like you figure out your patterns, you figure out your tools and your skills and you get stronger and stronger and stronger using them over time. So I'm so pleased to hear that things have improved. And I'm pleased to hear you keep working at it right? Because that's the ultimate piece is you're not like, Oh God, I have to start over. Like you're just you're growing it versus boom, bust boom, bust cycles of the old dieting piece. Lauren 25:22 Yeah, absolutely. Melissa Landry 25:24 So you mentioned orthorexia earlier, and I want to define that for any listeners who haven't heard the term before and then talk a little bit like from your perspective, you identify as having an orthorexia type eating experience. And if anyone resonates with this, I would just love to like pluck your brain and hear what it was like for you to learn intuitive eating from that lens. So for anyone who's listening, orthorexia is an unhealthy focus on eating in an unhealthy way. And this term was coined in the mid 90s, to try to describe some behaviors that were being observed. So, as I'm aware, at the current moment, there is not a formal eating disorder diagnosis around orthorexia. But many eating disorder providers use this term to talk about stories like Lauren's because it is a valid struggle and a concern. So for you, you, you often say to me, like I don't know if I have this for sure, but that's the description that best aligns with my experience coming into the intuitive eating work, and the program that we followed, what was it like for you to learn intuitive eating with that Orthorexic type of value system? What was that like for you? Lauren 26:38 It was interesting, because I sort of had to undo all the morality I had put on food and all the this food is good, this food is bad, this food is good. For me, this food is bad for me like, and I still, like struggle with that. Honestly, I still occasionally say to myself, Oh, this food is really bad. Or like, I've been eating too much bad food, I need good food. And I don't say it out loud as much or even second as much anymore. I still, it's like ingrained because I still kind of think of foods like healthy and nourishing. And it's sort of just that I changed the words from good and bad to help the nourishing, Melissa Landry 27:20 like you switch the language from good bad to nourishing. So that's such an interesting insight you're making me so I feel so proud. Because that that's the kind of outcome of these programs is where you get a little bit like, sometimes your disordered eating or eating disorder can can be really tough and whack a mole shape shift. It's like I thought I gotcha, now you're over here. But over time you become really strong and be like, Girl, I can see that you're just wearing glasses. It's still you like nobody, you just put a wig on. I know it's you like, it's like it disguises itself. But you get stronger at noticing the disguises, which means you don't get tricked by it's also so often so tell us about that. Like how do you deal with that when that comes up? Lauren 27:59 Yeah, I have to start thinking about things. Like I have to just use more words to describe stuff. I can't I can't use one word. I can't just say this food is nourishing and this food isn't because ultimately that's not true. Like ultimately, if I you know, eat some potato chips because I was hungry. That's fine and not not nourishing my body you know, like, right, but what I do try to keep in mind is when you know like let's say I'm having a GERD flare up and for people who don't know that a gastrointestinal reflux disease, and it's or gastro esophageal, I think it technically is. But anyway, I get a lot of heartburn. And I just don't feel great sometimes depending on what I'm eating. And it took me a long time to just stop hyper focusing, and I had to just eat whatever and take the medication for the GERD to undo some of the hyper focus. And then I was and when I say a while, I mean like probably a year like I was still doing that when we started working together, Melissa, which I think was in like September, and I don't really have I do still take the medication and I finally made an appointment with a gastro until electrologist which I probably should have done a long time ago. But, but you know, I was managing it with food so I didn't have to go see a doctor. But yeah, so I have to think of food as like how will this make me feel? I think somebody in our group it might have been Wendy said, you know, like how will I feel what I finished this food or how will this food serve me is sometimes a question I asked myself too because I do sometimes need to eat food that nourishes me, I guess in a in a way that's like a little bit more efficient than potato chips, right like you know sometimes I just want a snack but I know if I eat snap peas for example. Instead of potato chips, I'm gonna feel a lot better the rest of the day. And that doesn't mean that I never pick potato chips. And so that's kind of the structure I had to put around it for myself. And I mean, I don't ask myself this every meal. Sometimes I just eat because I'm hungry. And I just eat whatever's there. Melissa Landry 30:17 Like what a weird existence like, Yeah, I do think sometimes when you learn mindset skills, we get to like, oh, no, I didn't do it every time. It's like, no, the point is, some automation happens. Yeah, thinking is exhausting. Nobody wants to think about thinking, Oh, that's like replacing the diet thoughts with like, become the perfect intuitive eater thoughts. And so that's a really important note to say, like, yes, sometimes we are surfacing it, and we are practicing on purpose. But hopefully, ultimately, we're only using that when we need it versus all the freakin time. Lauren 30:49 I was really worried about that. I don't know if you remember. But in our discovery call, I was like, what if this is just the next diet I'm trying, I don't want to do this. Like, I don't want to hurt myself anymore. And I mean, I was really scared. And I like it kind of brings tears to my eyes now just thinking about like how afraid I was to mess up again, frankly. And that I've really grown out of like, I've sort of learned how to make choices and like not be harsh on myself if I do mess up and just keep going forward. Melissa Landry 31:24 Yeah. What do you think, in that discovery call? Because that I think that is so relatable, it's so relatable, where people often tell Lena and I like there is this side of me that wants this so bad and understands it up here in my mind, and I get it, I get that I need to try something different. But I am so afraid of doing something else investing again. And watching that money go down the drain with nothing to show for it. So you didn't I don't think you didn't feel like that starting to program. Nobody like that little party, you probably didn't fully go away. But how did you talk to that part of you to actually get the support that you needed? And wanted? Lauren 32:06 That's a great question. For me, I think I I did do some research, like I did, you know, outside of, of just, you know, following you both on Instagram and Googling and stuff. But I did do some, like, it was mostly Googling, but I did do sort of some deeper dives, and to what my, what the goals of intuitive eating were and what like some of the red flags are like if you know, like Intuitive Eating is not a diet, it's not meant to help you lose weight, and you may lose weight, you may gain weight, you don't know you're supposed to just eat. I did some of that research. And I talked about it with some of my friends who, you know, I hadn't really accepted how I guess disordered my behavior had been, I knew that I had been dieting a lot. And I didn't want to do that anymore. And it wasn't serving me in the way I wanted it to. But I didn't fully understand how much harm I had done to myself, or that, you know, had been done to me, I guess, depending on how you work, looked at it until after we started working together. And but I talked to some of my friends, you know, some of whom have dealt with their own eating disorders or disordered eating and some who haven't. And, you know, I was like, I think I'm gonna try this. Do you think it's like the next diet craze or something? And, you know, can you tell me like, if I try this, and you see some of those behaviors coming back, can you talk to me about that, and I don't want to do that to myself anymore. And so that was really helpful. I mean, I'm, I'm very fortunate to have friends who support me in almost every way, but also who have been a little bit on this journey themselves. They, you know, we all have different flavors. Yeah, and they have sort of come to different ways than I have. But they were always willing to hear me out. And, and were always willing to, you know, talk to me about it and and listen about what I was feeling and make sure that I was making the right choice for myself. Melissa Landry 34:21 They sound like a great support system there. And I have to give you a little credit because what you're saying is is like there was a very specific message that was coming from the fear side of you, and it's what if this isn't what I think it is. And I think that that is so valid and any of you who go into Intuitive Eating whether or not you choose a program or self study, if there is an internal voice and saying what if this isn't what I think it is, can you just give yourself a big we have the explicit label a big fucking high five, because there's something inside of you that has learned. If you if you inherit, if you have that thought that's coming up inside of you, it means that that is the very first time that you are talking back to. We'll call it diet culture, even though Intuitive Eating isn't, but you can't tell yet. Yeah. So I think that that is such a powerful moment, if you hear yourself saying, I'm scared to fail again. And what Lauren did, what I would say is maybe the skill to repeat for anyone listening, and she said, I'm afraid it's going to lead me to being obsessed with food again. And so she said, I'm curious about this, there's enough there that I would like to learn about it. But I need a safety net. And you've got that in your case, it was telling your friends, if I start acting like this, will you support me? And maybe for other people out there, your answer is different. And what scares you about intuitive eating, but if you can name it specifically, and either create a safety net with someone in your life, or the coach that you're working with, that's valid to where you say, Look, I need you to explain to me, what will you do? Or how will you support me if XYZ happens? That code better have a have an answer for you that satisfies you? And I just think that you did you did a lot more than you give yourself credit for. Because you said you set it up like it didn't feel safe at first, but you you helped yourself to make it feel safe. And that ultimately led to more skill development and in better practice for you. Lauren 36:17 Yeah, it was, I think being honest about it with people was a big key for me, because I think I always felt like I was being honest about my diet of the week. But I was to an extent, it's, I was never, I never like hid that I was on the binge restrict cycle. And I probably hit the binges a little bit, in that I just didn't really talk about him because I live alone. And so, but I think the fact that I was able to just be like, This is what I'm doing. This is my goal. This is what I'm afraid of. It was a really vulnerable place for me to go. But it was also kind of the strongest place I could go to because it for the first time, I wasn't really trying to do this by myself. Melissa Landry 37:06 We all want to do it by ourselves, don't we? And that's part of the morality deconstruction is like, good people are scrappy people, good. People find the steps and they do the steps and they don't bother other. You know, there's a lot, this morality message can also often kind of make it difficult to receive support as well, you know, so it's all part of that deconstruction. And I just want to circle back you said two things that listeners here get your pen and papers from Coach Lauren. You're doing two really things that if anyone struggles with orality, thinking, I love that point, which is one talk about food more broadly. So maybe you can't let go of good bad nourishing, not nourishing, but can you talk about food more broadly? So like, it's also crunchy and warm and hot and it makes me feel good. So that's one tip. Leanne and I cover this by the way, I keep calling back past episodes but you know, that kind of day in the challenge the food police episode, that's that skill that you're using. And then the second thing I love that you're doing is like over time, you did honor GERD you did honor your physical health and sometimes that means choosing former quote nutritious foods but this time because you want to and it's serving you. So two tips from Lauren write those down those are excellent tips to be practicing challenge the food police episode will help you build on it. So I want to close our Convo today one with just like thanking you for being so vulnerable and sharing this I just know for sure that a lot of our listeners can recognize themselves in your story. At this point now what would you share with them are some of the benefits or you know how your life has changed for the better like what is it worth it isn't worth it to go through all this. I think people want to know like is it worth struggling through all this? Like what happens to be at the end? Lauren 38:50 Yeah, to go back to what we were saying before I don't think I'm at the end. I don't know that any of us are exactly Melissa Landry 38:57 wired to at the end. What do we Oh yeah. Lauren 39:00 But I think I have so much less anxiety about food. I didn't realize how much time and energy I was putting into food and sometimes exercise though exercise. Like I said, I like exercising I was maybe doing it a little more than I would have if if I wasn't feeling any outside pressure but I definitely got so much time back to myself because I am not meal planning. I'm not researching the next diet trend. I'm not trying to figure out how to make like keto bread, doing like all of that stuff. Because I just eat bread. Sometimes I make bread at home because I like to bake and cook and that's another fun thing I have sort of when I cook i i really enjoy what I'm making and I almost never make like I used to have a while I still have it. I should delete it but I still have a Pinterest board. That was Like I called it healthy cheats, and it was things like bread or like zucchini, tater tots that weren't any potatoes, it was only zucchini and cauliflower. And sometimes I go back and laugh a little bit, but I don't want to like, I want to be super clear, like, that's not a criticism of people who like to or want to eat zucchini, tater tots, I mean, if that's your jam, go for it. But it took so much of my brain space. And everyday life, and I have so much of that back. And that's probably like the primary thing that I feel really good about. I mean, it's nice to be able to go to a restaurant, just order whatever I want to eat and not think about the calories on it. And only make decisions because I, I can't decide which one I want to eat. And that's nice. And, you know, it's nice to be able to model good behavior for you know, people and kids in my life and stuff and, and sort of embrace that food isn't the enemy. And food is just food. And so that's nice, but really, for me, it's it's getting that time back, I have so much more time. And even even like with the exercise, I might exercise the same amount every week, but I don't exercise for the same amount of time. So like, I still exercise four or five times a week, instead of six or seven. But instead of doing like an hour, two hours, I do, you know, 30 minutes, and then I'm done. And I feel just as good, you know, most of the time and my brain feels so much better. Melissa Landry 41:32 Oh, sounds like the extremes kind of came to the middle, you know, the ending your behaviors. And as a result, you're having less extreme internal experiences, there's less anxiety, there's less running around making keto bread, and there's a lot more peace and calm in your life. One more thing, I'm just remembering from our time, and I only mentioned this because you circled back at the origin of this Orthorexic type behavior, in part was around health, and doing a good job with health and really doing the right things to health. One of the most amazing things in the program was watching you reclaim that. And very specifically, you did that by defining what health is beyond weight and size. And I know you work with myself and other providers to really get clear on that. And you're in the middle of your journey. I think you're still sort of sorting out what does that physical health look like going forward for you. But it's really exciting to hear that like we always say this mental health is as important as physical health. And it sounds to me like you're finally at that point where like, those two things are starting to line up. And really behave as equals. It's not like physical health, but no mental health or all the mental health and no physical health, which is what many people fear, when they become intuitive eaters, they'll be like, Well, yeah, I'll be happy with food, but what's going to happen to my body, I won't be physically healthy, you prove that there actually is that middle way. Um, so I just want to add that in because to think about your success, where you started to now like you reclaiming what the word health means, is so empowering to watch and I think a lot of people would benefit from from that. Lauren 43:03 Yeah, that's been a big change in my life to just thinking about health in a different way and, and approaching my providers in a different way. Because I, I mean, this is a whole nother podcast, but I it is I avoided the doctor quite a bit. And at the time, it wasn't really because I was overweight, whatever that means. But it was just that, you know, I'm self employed, my health insurance is only so so and and now I'm like, I really do need to prioritize this, like I have to kind of put my money where my mouth is, to a certain extent. And, you know, I mean, I am in a position where I can do that, which I'm grateful for. But it's also that yeah, sometimes I sacrifice going out to eat so that I can pay for the doctor's appointments that I know I need to go to and, you know, taking the time to kind of using all that time that I used to spend on diet culture, taking the time to dig into my health insurance, let's find out that I can get zoom therapy for free. Which is great. So yes. So yeah. So prioritizing my health in a different way has been also pretty life changing. So I hope I can continue to do that going from here. Melissa Landry 44:13 Well, I think you will. Well, it was really nice to reconnect today. It's been a couple of months now since we ended our work. So it's always a treat for me to hear people didn't spontaneously combust after the program. They were able to deepen it. They're still focusing and working on it. So I'm just so thrilled for you. And I want to thank you for spending time with me and Elena today. Is there anything you want to share with the listeners in terms of following you or connecting with you after the podcast? Is that something you feel comfortable sharing with? Lauren 44:43 Yeah, sure. Thank you. And thank you for the opportunity to come talk today. It was really great. And I have really been sort of sitting in the orthorexia space, knowing that like it's a it's a challenge for a lot of people to varying degrees and I'm glad we were able to We'll talk about it today. But yes, by probably the best place to follow me is on my Instagram, which is just Lauren piner SC like South Carolina. I am a realtor in the South Carolina Florence area, but work at the beach, too. If somebody wants me to come show them houses on the beach, I'd love to do that. And you can also check out my website. I mean, I have a real estate website, which you can find on the Instagram too. But my website is Lauren pinter.com, which is really easy. And it's it, I do some blog writing is is probably the most active thing there. And I talk about kind of my experience as a small business owner, I did actually do one entry about kind of my experience with intuitive eating and things like that. And it's probably it's a really good way to get to know me if you want to. Melissa Landry 45:52 But yes, I appreciate that. And that's so cool. You and I definitely bonded on entrepreneurship from time to time. And so yes, I'm very happy to share your work with listeners if you are, gosh, that this market right now is Bananarama. So we all need a good person in our corner if we are needing support with that. So if you're in South Carolina, check Lauren out. And I just can't thank you enough for your time today. Thanks for chatting with us. Lauren 46:15 Thank you so much. Oh, so good to see you both. Melissa Landry 46:19 Working with clients like Lauren is such a joy for me. One of the things that I really love doing for my clients is hearing their stories, and help individualizing Intuitive Eating work because we talk about this all the time. It is not one size fits all these principles that you learn are so inspiring, but it's not uncommon to struggle with translating it from Instagram or the books into your real life. And that's because feedback and community and dialogue are all part of the learning process. And so for right now you're struggling to make sense of intuitive eating and what it could mean for your life, particularly if you are struggling with binges or special health concerns. I want you to know you're not alone. And there's a path to go through this. Right now. My communities are coming together to talk through common issues and I'm there to support them through a repeatable framework. You can head over to at no dot more dot guilt. To learn more about my membership, and current one to one coaching offers. I'd love to hear your story and help you figure out what the next step might be in finding peace with food. With that, we want to thank you for listening and for being who you are. Dalina Soto 47:27 Love and break the diet cycle.