Today we’ve enlisted Zoë Bisbing, an eating disorder therapist, activist, mother of three and co-founder of @fullbloomproject to talk about body positive parenting skills and inner child work.
If you’ve ever felt like you *WANT* to be body positive (so you can push back on the very diet culture that hurt you!)…but struggle to feel positive about YOUR OWN larger or changing body, you’re not alone.
We talk about where the disconnect between your body positive heart and mind, why it’s so hard to heal from past diet trauma, and what you can do to move forward, while preventing harm to others around you.
In this episode you’ll learn:
- The difference between your body genetics and body ancestry on body positivity
- What it takes for the word “fat” to become a neutral descriptor if you have a history of bullying, shame, and trauma around the word “fat”
- Creative techniques to approach your own reparenting, or inner child work, around food and body image, especially if you didn’t have a body positive parent yourself!
- How to create a body positive environment for kids you encounter: as a parent, aunt, or, anyone close to young people!
Loving the pod and finding benefit? I’d love your honest review! Want to be my ABSOLUTE hero? Go on and share your favorite episode with someone you care about. Spreading the word helps us Break the Diet Cycle, together!
Follow Zoë and the Full Bloom Project on Instagram @fullbloomproject
Get “The ABC’s of Body Positive Parenting” for your parenting or inner child work: https://www.fullbloomproject.com/training/abc-guide
Check out “Bodies are Cool” by Tyler Feder: here
Get Melissa’s free 3 step guide to eat without guilt: https://mailchi.mp/d9207e0baf90/nomoreguiltguide
Join the Break the Diet Cycle Podcast Community in Instagram: @break.the.diet.pod
Connect with Melissa on Instagram: @no.more.guilt
Follow Break the Diet Cycle on Apple Podcasts
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This episode was sponsored by No More Guilt with Melissa Landry. Reminder that though we are dietitians, we’re not *YOUR* dietitian. Podcasts don’t constitute treatment. If you have concerns about your dieting behaviors, seek out guidance from a medical or mental health professional. And if you’re looking for the process, support, and focus you need to live life without food guilt apply for a coaching program from today’s sponsor. No More Guilt with Melissa Landry is currently enrolling clients into 1:1 programs, group programs, and, recently added a do-it-yourself learning format: the Ex-Dieter’s Guide to No More Guilt.
what would you say to your inner child about body positivity? transcript
Melissa Landry 0:02 Hi there, I'm Melissa, a registered dietitian specialize in intuitive eating for on again off again, chronic dieters, and I'm here to help you take the guilt and stress out of eating so you can be the first in your family to break the diet cycle. I'm interested in helping you unlearn generational diet trauma, so you can be who you are without food guilt. Be sure to follow on Instagram at no more guilt for more support between these episodes. Are you ready? Let's jump in. Today, we have Zoë who I'm so thrilled to introduce to you all. Zoë is an eating disorder therapist and advocate. She has an amazing social media page where she does some of the best education I've seen for parents, because she talks about those really hard and sticky conversations that all of us want to avoid, but unfortunately need to be having. So I'll stop gushing. So we will you introduce yourself. Zoë 0:59 Yeah, I am Zoë fizzing, as you already said. And you said, I'm a therapist. I'm also a mom of three. So I wear that hat when I'm not wearing a therapist hat. And I run a group practice in New York City, a group therapy practice called body positive therapy NYC where we treat folks across the lifespan and across the disordered eating spectrum. The full blown project, which is what you're referring to, is my effort at prevention, I put air quotes because there's a limit to what we can prevent. But I do think that speaking with parents of kids of all ages, I mean, that's pretty special, when you can get in there with a parent who has a baby and has this sort of opportunity to really do body positive parenting, there's real space to have transformative conversations with your children of all ages, even if it's the child inside you that maybe needed a body positive parent, but never got one, Melissa Landry 2:00 it's hard for clinicians to keep seeing the same problems knowing that there are some things we can do on the front end to some degree to help the problems of diet culture. So let's first talk about that when we saying to some degree, how much can be prevented, I'd love your take on that. Zoë 2:16 I say to some degree because what I know from research is eating disorders are highly inheritable. And, you know, everybody is delta, like a hand of cards right? With your genetic kind of cards and your environmental cards. And so when we think about eating disorder prevention, we're really thinking about what of those cards can we make sure our protective factors, and which of those cards can we acknowledge our risk factors, and then keep our eye out on from, you know, I have on them our eye on them. For example, if you're, if there's a history of eating disorders in your family, or there's a history of obsessive compulsive disorder, or perfectionism, or you know, or forget eating disorders per minute, alcoholism and your family or breast cancer, right, like some of these vulnerabilities, just they just are, we can't control those. But we can know that they're there. And then we can work on really drumming up the protective factors. And the I think, the better, we can do all that and appreciate that we can do our best, right. And then if our kid does develop an eating disorder, I think prevention can also look like early intervention where you see it, you get in there, you get support for your kid before it becomes a chronic problem. So when I say that, to the best we can, you know, we can't really prevent anything in life is the truth. But we can do a lot to increase protection against those problems. Melissa Landry 3:54 There's a lot of acceptance in what you're saying that all of us carry genetics and predispositions. And we don't really know, to some extent, like the science is at the end of the 23 and me and all of this stuff is coming up to personalize our genome. But we can't really know until we're in a situation, what what will come up within us. So it sounds like you're really for people acknowledging those parts of themselves, and then creating environments that work best for them. And that might mean for yourself or for your kids or your family, Zoë 4:23 Totally, and I really believe and you know, it's interesting because my kids are little so it's less applicable maybe to little, little kids. But I do think that if you have a history of disordered eating and your family, it is better to talk to your family to your kids about that risk factor. Because it's like, I see this happen a lot with people that have the breast cancer BRACA to talk about it with their kids, you know, and similarly if there's history of alcoholism, that kid isn't really in a position to have that for First drink in high school like the next kid is because there's this extra vulnerability. So I am I'm a big believer in just openness and to say things like, you know, anxiety runs in our family like, like we have a whole history of eating disorders in our family, I'm sorry, I will not allow you to go on that. Juice Cleanse with your friends. It's not one of the options here. So yes, working with what we have is, I think, I think it's a positive thing. Melissa Landry 5:25 Yeah, it's not, it's not taboo. And it's not bad. That these are parts of you, which I think a lot there is a lot of shame around disordered eating or experiences around disordered eating. That's such a great, that's such a great way of framing it and thinking about it. Like, we need to normalize this, we also need to normalize that even if you don't have the history, we live in a diet culture. This is the reality, it's the water we swim, and it serves kids and adults have skills to navigate that while we work on hopefully dismantling it sometime in this generation, I don't know, we'll have to wait and say, Okay, so this genetics thing is reminding me of your ABCs ebook you had sent to me a long while back, I was so grateful to receive that. And I remember some I know this is for purchase, I'd love to put it in the shownotes if folks are interested. But there was it was so cute and well written. And sometimes you know, these ABCs books, it's like, are we filling all 26 letters? No, we're not Zoë's giving you real information. i Every lead was beneficial. But genetics was one of the things that you pointed out, you gave that tip. But you also pointed out another one that I really liked, which was ancestry? Can you tell me a little bit in your mind? Like, what's the difference between accepting and knowing your genetics versus celebrating and honoring your ancestry? What's the difference between those two letters, their A and G? Zoë 6:45 No, I, I love that you're bringing that up, because they're, they're so interconnected. But they are different. And we just talked a little bit about genetics. If you carry a gene in you, that makes you predisposed to anything, even the color of your eye, but like, right on that level, and genetics, we do know, in terms of mental health and physical health, like there are, well, you can be genetically vulnerable to those things. So genetics, and I think about it as like the genetic body blueprint, like we are kind of made up, we are designed, however, we're designed and our genes are responsible for that. But with respect to ancestry, it's sort of thinking about it more broadly, in terms of the your family, like, what's your lineage? And what I really like about combining these things is with genetics, you can try to appreciate, you know, maybe even using 23andme appreciating something about how you're made, like, from a scientific perspective, where are your strengths? Where are your weaknesses, or whatever word you want to use? And then with respect to ancestry, it's like, what do our people look like? What is our history? How are we shaped, it's both genetics, because genetics, as you know, of course, has a lot to do with how we're literally built, right, physically, that you have curly hair, and that I don't like, that's genetics, right. But our ancestry gives us a sense of this, like bigger picture of people we're from, and being able to reflect back on that and to have an appreciation for wow, I get to have a life. Because of all these people that had body is that that came before me. And sometimes even it's one of our little tips in the in the guide, like sometimes just making sure your kids can see physical representation yourself to have your, your people, you know, the people from your extended family, but going back as much as you can, and even if you use ancestry.com, or whatever to find, like what part of the world are my people from, to kind of get a sense of, oh, we are all kind of built that way. So especially in our diet culture, where we have these appearance ideals that are so, so narrow, it's very easy to see your body as wrong, or you know, the way you're made as wrong, because it's different from the ideal. But if we can really look at our people, you know, you start to say, Oh, I belong, because that sense of belonging and I do think that ancestry, an orientation towards ancestry can can help with that. Melissa Landry 9:27 Yeah, you may have a different body, but you're not alone. And that difference when you frame it like that, that you come from people who have similar traits, right? I don't know maybe you have a positive connection with even if you can simply appreciate what they offered to get you to this point in your life. There's a lot of positivity around your shape, your size, the way you present when you put it that way. Zoë 9:48 I think that I always think about this story. My mom, I was telling my mom about ancestry as part of all this. And she said, You know, I realized I've always hated my feet because they're so big and she said, like, I've always felt like they were big peasant feet. And then she said, But I realized that my feet have served me, because like, I got these big sturdy feet. And I've been able, she's been able to like work relatively physical job into her 70s Because of those feet. And so I think the other piece that ancestry can help is appreciating the function of the body, like you just said, the function of the human body that literally survived and to create you one day and so having deepening reverence for like the way our bodies function, I think it can be useful there to Melissa Landry 10:39 Such a nice reframe. Usually, in my sessions I hear, you know, my mom said to me, Oh, you got cursed with my thighs, or you got my metabolism? I'm so sorry, as if it's something of a bad inheritance. This has it look at a completely different lens. And that can be therapeutic for a lot of people who were told that their bodies wrong or, you know, you heard your mom say something about herself and you're looking at your thighs and going wait a minute. Yeah, it to me, but it sounds personal when when I see the sameness within us or between us. Totally. When you think about parenting skills towards kids and what you offer on full bloom. I have many times shared your posts and encouraged my followers and clients do what Zoë saying for yourself, like parent yourself? And so what can we learn about parenting skills that we might traditionally think I'm going to say and do and be this way for my littles? What can we learn from parenting skills to actually give back to ourselves through the recovery process? Zoë 11:41 I think everything I mean, I see full bloom, I always say, body positive, nurturing work, Body Positive Parenting work, that it's never too early, and it's never too late. And I really believe this. And in so many ways, our self talk our just way of engaging with ourselves, we have to figure out a way to talk to ourselves as though we were talking to a child in order to get the level of compassion that we really need and all deserve. And some people really struggle with that. Obviously, I know, people that you work with struggle with that. But I mean, this, this radical idea that all bodies are good bodies. It's not that radical, it's just I think a truth. But to say it to yourself, as though you were saying it to a little kid who's brand new, you know, who doesn't know yet that they're going to learn that they you know, are going to need to hate on themselves or spend a lot of money on trying to fix themselves, right like, and to give yourself a chance to I think in almost use all the advice that I have out there for parents to simply just develop almost like, as you say, like a self parenting practice. And I think it can bring up a lot of grief for people, because I would imagine that happens with with the folks that you work with, because a lot of people didn't have a body positive parent. And they can feel like a lot of pain when they realize that they could start to talk to themselves in a way that reminds them of how not body positive the adults in their life. were, you know, I do think even just imagining yourself as a kid. And like the last point in time that you remember just having a body you were embodied. You didn't think a whole lot about your body you ate because you enjoyed food and you moved because you've enjoyed movement, like, can you talk to that part of you? Because it deserves to hear everything that I'm trying to get parents and 2022 to pay attention to. Melissa Landry 13:50 Right? There's all of these new messages you learn, if you didn't grew up with a body positive parent, that now you're responsible for almost saying out loud and explicitly teaching to yourself. I think there's such a huge disconnect for folks that maybe absorb those messages and social or in a book, and then actually dialoguing with a coach or a therapist because you're actually put in the position to grapple with the ideas and say them to yourself. There's such a difference between knowing it and practicing it. I think for parents, many of my clients when they have a kid, they're kind of saying that and they're going oh, and it's almost like they're hearing it to themselves. What are some things you could do though, if you don't have kids? Or maybe these conversations aren't coming up with your your kids? What are ways that adults could reparent or activities they could do to support it? Zoë 14:41 Well, so I know you know, the book bodies are cool. And this is a children's book, a picture book, but I literally prescribe it to patients of all ages. Like I just, I literally just had a sixty year old woman buy this book for her herself and she actually got emotional thinking about the prospect of one day giving this book to her grandchild that she doesn't have yet. But anyway, I say this because this is an example of like an of an activity or an exercise that no matter how old you are, spend the $12, or whatever to buy this amazing book, because I really think that just dropping bodies or cool into any room instantly makes the room a body positive space. And I then encourage people to just look at it and notice their own sort of aversions to some of the bodies. And notice, you know, kind of just try to get access to like any, whether it's internalized fat phobia, or, you know, again, any welcoming the judgment, and to just look and see and try to observe what they see what I love about that book beyond just the pictures of different bodies, sizes, shapes, levels of ability, everything, there's neutral, descriptive language that she uses. And I think, you know, as a way of just saying it out loud, it might be you might think, Well, I'm 35, like, why do I need a children's book in my house? That's kind of weird. But I think to your question, it's an activity that I think gets right at your inner child, because then I want you to think about what would it have been like if somebody sat in, you know, cozy corner in your room with you? And you were three and read this? Like, can you imagine that? Like, what what would have been different. So it's like, buy your inner child a children's book. Melissa Landry 16:31 I think that's a great prompt. That's also a just a general learning technique, like the use of pictures. Yeah, you can disorders, disordered eating, it's such a cognitive language driven experience. It's lots of words and, and sometimes switching gears into like an image. And seeing what that brings up in you, it just helps you come at the experience from a different perspective, which is really powerful. When you see those pictures, you see those neutral words, kind of does something to form new connections that are hard to make if you're stuck in the old spirals that you're used to. Zoë 17:03 It's true. And I think, to your point from before, it's different from reading a book, like Anti diet or intuitive eating right, like, which are great books, like there's good books in the space that we're in, but they are they're up here. And you know, you do you want to get access to a part of you that is more about feeling and less about thinking, this is another kind of goofy activity, but especially if someone has not a particularly peaceful relationship with movement. i People think I'm weird. I totally encourage adults to go to the playground. But it's there. If you don't have a kid I mean, you're not allowed to be there with if you don't have a kid usually, but I encourage adults that are you know, either are have lost their connection to movement altogether, or are only doing movement for weight loss purposes or sculpting or whatever. If they're trying to find this like joy of movement, like where to go, you know, I said go look at a playground and what would you do first? Is it that you would you want to go swing? Would you want to go down the slide? Would you want to climb would you not want to do anything you know, because again, it kind of gets out that little person in us that went to the playground and just played and moved. Melissa Landry 18:21 That's so funny. We actually have a little playground in our neighborhood that my husband and I visited after hours one evening and I had this experience so a and my what I was prompted to do was to climb to the top of this structure which I can't believe children were climbing to the top because yours truly was tear I was like this is so so so interesting. That was something that came up within me go to the top no I don't really want that but even like these feelings of of knowing your own boundaries with the thinking it starts to happen when it's not like okay you're on a peloton they said go this cadence. Now I have to there's a lot I love these ideas. And I would encourage anyone listening to like think outside the box kind of a cheesy saying but think outside the box, how can you put yourself in new situations around new media to see what it brings up within you? Because you know, you know the answers to all of this. You just need the right prompts to help figure out where where you belong with your movement, your food, your sense of self. You mentioned neutral language. You've been putting up a lot of great reels lately about neutralizing the word fat. I saw the one you did with the carrots exposing I think you're right, that was so cool. I'm like, Oh my gosh, she does this in such creative ways. I would imagine I noticed this sometimes with my friends who are parents, there's a lot of comfort, talking about the neutrality toward their kids, right modeling it because you can learn it right? I can watch your reel and I can do it for my kid because you've modeled it. But when someone maybe uses that word toward me, or I think that about myself doesn't feel so neutral. So tell me what do you know about that? break for parents sometimes where they can like, they can model it and they can teach it to their kids, but just still doesn't feel true for them. Zoë 20:06 Yeah, I think that happens all the time. I know that you can, you can be this someone's that, here's this is not going to agree with me. But I do think you can be a fat positive person. And also fat phobic like I think both can be true at the same time, because you might genuinely have a like, exactly like you said, a part of you that's really capable of bringing all that kind of body positive excitement to a child. And yet, if there was a history attached to that word for you, well, you're gonna have to work as long as you did plus more on feeling terrible about yourself or about that word, you know, it's a math equation that's like, how many times are you going to actually need to say the word fat or let's say, look at a part of your body that is fat, and look at it in the mirror and just describe it as a stat curve, like, how many times do you think you'd need to actually do that? So that it could start to have a different meaning? I mean, it might be millions of times, right? So I do think that it's, it's entirely possible that you just need more exposure, and appreciation that things are different. Now, you know, like, this meant something different back then it means something different now, this is what people come to therapy for. Melissa Landry 21:28 So often describe, like, my head and my heart are not in the same place with this, like my head cognitively understands. There's nothing wrong with being fat. And I truly believe that I don't think that about other people. But it still hurts my heart to hear that word. So exposures are helpful. And I hope that's so liberating for people to hear I hear a lot of people beating themselves up for that part of them or for that disconnect. And there's, there's no way around that if do you agree? Zoë 21:56 I do, and I don't want anyone to beat themselves up. I mean, I hear that often. I mean, I, I know exactly what you're talking about. It's that people often will feel here with me in my office, I know people sometimes feel a little nervous to say, like, here are my values. But then like, here's, essentially, here's how I really feel or hear has how another part of me feels and I, I'm a big parts externalize or you know, so it's like, you could totally have a part of you that even finds that bodies beautiful. And then a part of you that can't tolerate fat on your body. And I think the goal here is you were just talking about like dialing with yourself, it's like getting these parts to dialogue with each other to and also to try to understand what is it about the fat on my body or being called fat, which are two very different things. And then the difference between being fat versus feeling fat, like what is fat mean? You know, and, and to, let's give you the complete benefit of the doubt, and just assume that there's a part of you that has a very negative association, for a very good reason, you know, or a part of you that doesn't want to be fat, for for a really good reason. But is it outdated? The reason? It's complicated, I think listening to a podcast or following us on social media, there's a limit to the support. I think, if people can are really struggling to integrate these two parts of themselves just means they need support to do that, you know, individual work. Melissa Landry 23:25 It feels like chatter in the beginning. There's a lot of messages and voices and feelings, there's body sensations, there's a lot that can go on. Because it's so stigmatized people have a hard time teasing out exactly. Like you're describing almost like a being a facilitator to these parts. And oh, yeah, and we'll see like the like Fantasia like the maestro of the orchestra or something like, and it can feel like that. That doesn't mean it always feels pleasant. But it can feel more facilitated by you, the real person, just sometimes take some support separating out all the different messages and what's going on within you. It's okay to feel a little jumbled. This is really hard. There's a reason why generations before didn't maybe become aware or have the tools and the resources, taking a lot of collective effort through generations to become aware of our biases and our diet culture and have safety to even talk about them out loud, Zoë 24:21 completely. And we're in an era now where assuming the case is true for you, but me as well, like, I don't think our businesses are suffering as a result of being fat positive. Whereas like 10 years ago, I think you'd have a hard time filling a practice if you were like not as a dietitian, I'm sure like not offering weight loss for example, I think now more and more people seem to be seeking out more like just affirming care that affirms their body as they are and I want to also we can never underestimate the it's sort of the same than beating a dead horse but We can't underestimate how much more representation we need to see. Because it is a structural crisis, we do need to see representation of all bodies. Because if we don't, and we can do, we can do stuff by like going on social media and trying to find real bodies to look at as opposed to just photoshopped ones. But our part of us that's maybe afraid of being fat, is is still looking at a world where it genuinely isn't okay, like you will be oppressed, you will potentially be not hired or discriminated against or not want to be like. So of course, it's like survivalists to not want to be that thing. But I think if you can really open up your mind and sort of realize that it's not really like that anymore. Like, you just need to curate a different community for yourself. Melissa Landry 25:56 It exists and you have agency if you have the privilege to do that you have agency to maybe create environments that are safer for you today. Yeah. How much of that part of the structural piece Do you think kids can be let in on? Yeah, meaning that like, weight bias exists, weight stigma exists, that when people are judging or ridiculing fatness we can explain that to kids is that there are some people who believe that fatness is less than or discriminated against, is that a message that kids can handle? And when How do you approach that from your parenting work? Zoë 26:36 It's funny. So in my speaking work, like I'll speak with middle schoolers, high schoolers, and I definitely educate them about all of it, like the levels of weight stigma, and, you know, the, just the reality that size discrimination is still it's like a legal thing. How do you feel about that? Because Michael with tweens and teens is to rile them up, think I've been really angry, you know, because, and one of the middle schoolers in the audience, most recently was essentially saying she didn't know the word structural. But she was essentially saying, Well, I, I want to accept all this, but, and then describe the community that she's in. And I think it's important to be able to say, Yes, isn't this totally fucked up? Yeah. What are What have people in the past that have been oppressed? Or have seen oppression around them? What have they done about it? And I think to encourage, especially older kids, you know, tweens and teens to like, make this their cause with little kids, it's funny, my I've, I've my kids like my boys in particular, they're like, Shut up already about that being a fine thing. Like we get it, you know, let us just, we just want to laugh at the Simpsons and the fat jokes. And it's tricky, because I and I'm only sharing that because I'm a realist, even when you're outspoken about all this stuff, this the culture, it's not even the culture that's getting them and harming them directly. But the mere fact that they're laughing at fat jokes, like, it's tough, you know, and I think the best I can do, and I think the best parents can do is sometimes it's just a look, sometimes I'll just be like, you know, you can't the audience can't see me, but like, it was Melissa Landry 28:18 excited. I for the record. Yes, it wasn't. I heard you. I heard you with those eyes. Zoë 28:23 Yeah, it's just like, come on, or, you know, make a joke. Well, you know how I feel about that, you know, there's nothing wrong with being fat. I know, Mom, there's nothing wrong with being fat anyway, you know, like, but at the very worst, they know that I represent a person who says, No, all that's fucked up. And, you know, they'll internalize that, even if they're annoyed. Melissa Landry 28:48 What interrupts there's this. And I think this is what maybe it's hard for people even in their own recovery journey, especially folks in larger bodies. They're like, I was prescribed and praised for this behavior, my entire life. And I'm seeing all this reinforcement in the media and every single message reinforces the idea thing is better, you should pursue it. So even if they're rolling their eyes, that is an interruption to that barrage of consistent messaging that they get from important person in their life, a person of influence, which seems a little bit differently than random on the street. I think that's fantastic. And maybe taking the pressure off parents, like your kids aren't going to have squeaky clean thoughts and behaviors as it relates to fat phobic stuff, neither are you. We're in the business of disrupting it as often as we can, when we can. And that has to be enough because there's, there's more facets to life than this big part of life. There's more to it. Zoë 29:48 Completely. And I think the most important thing really for parents is to it's just to let your kid grow into the body that they are meant to have, which is their genetic body blueprint and And whatever environmental is going around them that which you cannot control, like, let it all happen. And I think you're saying yes, less is more. I think that there are small but mighty moves that we can make. And, you know, can certainly have no tolerance policy for Body Talk, for example, like, I try really hard not to, like, compliment my kids based on their external features, although, of course, I'm going to say, oh, you know, to my little girl, Oh, you look so cute, like, you know, because I'm a human right, but I think we can do our best and yes, to just recognize that the goal isn't to like, again, it's not really to prevent a thought, but rather to help, you know, raise a critical thinker who can just at least write wonder, that seems unfair, like, Why can't there's a seat for that person, but not that person? Like, hmm, what do you mean, tell me, my kids will come home and say, they told me today, I couldn't have more salami, because it's unhealthy. And I said, I'm gonna tell my mom, you know, like, that's not right. What are you talking about, let him eat salami. Melissa Landry 31:07 develop critical thinkers help them make meaning of confusing and painful experiences that they will go through, they're gonna, and then the last piece it seems to is just letting them be connected to their bodies. Because if they can do that, if they can feel safe in their bodies, and connected to them, that can be the difference. That when we talk about intuitive eating, doesn't actually need to be taught. It's within. And so we're trying not to disrupt that natural process. Zoë 31:33 It reminds me of yesterday, I was walking with my son, who had only eaten candy and cookies yesterday, like we started the day making gingerbread houses, and he had, like gum drops for breakfast. It was a joke, and we went to a birthday party. And, and he was he was saying how his tummy was talking. Like he was telling me he was saying it was it had had too many sweets. But his tummy was talking. His tummy was telling him he couldn't have he couldn't eat any more cake. Like he wanted to eat the cake. But then his tummy was saying I can't have anymore. And to me, I mean, I feel like whether you're six or you're 60, what is your tummy say? If Tommy's could talk, you know, it's like, because that's everything in that connection to, you know, my tummy is in charge, not the diet industry, right. Like, Melissa Landry 32:28 yeah, that's a great example. I just so appreciate you sharing these specific stories, though, because I know, you know, social media is an interesting place. And sometimes we find educators and role models, and we think, gosh, they must Everything must be perfect in their life, they must never feel uncomfortable that is that, in the end, you've shown that that's just not true. Or we are truly all in this together and figuring it out together. So I just really appreciate the realness you bring both here on the podcast and on your page. I'm going to link your page and show notes, I'm going to put the ABCs ebook that you've created in shownotes, I found it to be super helpful just to inspire you and get you thinking about new strategies. Anything else you want to mention if people are interested in following you and your work? Zoë 33:10 No. I mean, I think the ABC guy just in the context of what we're talking about, I think, would be interesting to read it as a sort of inner child meditation. You know, like it's, of course, very much designed for parents, but I would be curious if anybody did that. I think that would be interesting. And the website they can find full bloom at our website. And if there's any, we do a lot of speaking workshops for parents and high school students and middle school students. So if anyone if they want to bring body positive work to their community, they can also contact us through the website. Incredible. Melissa Landry 33:46 Thank you so much for the work you do really very specifically. So we like the way that you craft language for parents. Many people don't know what to say we don't know what to say. And it's just so valuable what you're doing. So I'm delighted I could have you on here today and I hope everyone will go follow you after listening to the podcast. Zoë 34:04 Thank you. Well, it's been a long time coming. I've been looking forward to it. Thank you so much. Melissa Landry 34:09 Thanks Zoe, bye. Well, we bought our Christmas tree today I was reminded how indecisive I am I was going back and forth between all the different types to probably spend up just a little bit too long looking for this Christmas tree but it is up the branches are settling we're excited to decorate and roll into this new year. I really liked this interview so many good ideas creative ideas, I love having guests on because everybody has a different perspective or things they've learned along the way this reminds me I'm going to put the link for that bodies are cool book in show notes. I actually got that bodies are cool book from a friend of mine who has a kid saw it and thought of me it is totally cool if you're a grown adult without kids owning a children's book. I will share that with you your Creativity can start to wake up a little bit more when you let go of the racing thoughts and the guilt that you feel around food and in your life generally. So be prepared for that. Suddenly, this podcast isn't meant for you to stay stuck and ruminate and pluck out your generational diet trauma. We're not here to wallow in it, we're here to listen to it, affirm it, recognize it's there, but ultimately open up to a new life. So many of my clients tell me the main thing that they want, the reason that they want to be without food guilt is just for some peace and calm, they've never really had that around food around movement. And if that's you, you're allowed a future where you go to bed not beating yourself up or worrying about the next day as it relates to food and body image. Anytime we can give you some new fodder here. I'm just glad to do it. So thank you for listening to this episode and all the episodes when I came back for season six, I told you I wasn't sure how I felt about doing a podcast on my own. Your support has meant the world to me. Next week, we're going to release episode 20 of this season. And usually I only do 20 episodes a season to allow myself to take a break, get re inspired, think about some new topics and interviewees that really make this a valuable space. I don't want to just keep talking at you for the sake of it. I'm gonna go back into the quiet pretty soon, and see what I can come up with. You know, as Registered Dieticians were required to do it's like 75 hours of continuing education over a five year span. For me that was one of the greatest parts about my job. I'm like a forever student. You know, I like to learn I like that that's baked into my job. And every time I go back out into the world and get new ideas and new techniques, I become a better teacher, I become hopefully a better podcaster and I can only take you as far as I take myself. So next week, we will have our final episode of the season. I'll still be serving one to one clients, but I will be hibernating a little bit as it relates to the podcast so I can restore and come back stronger. For those of you who follow my newsletter, I gave you a little bit of a Christmas gift last week, you're invited to a totally free 60 minute workshop with me where we're going to talk about how to have a non diet New Year so if you think you'll be missing the podcast come the New Year, come to the meetup. This is my way of saying thanks to my email list my podcast community for following along with this no more guilt work and for being the first in your family to break the diet cycle. That would be really cool. To get us all together. I want to support you in your work. All you got to do is put your name in the list and I'll send you all the details in the new year. All right, my friends until next time, be good to your good body. Transcribed by https://otter.ai